Conversations that don’t resolve - but move things forward.
The same thinking we bring to organizations -
complex ideas meet real dialogue, not talking points.
Conversations that don’t resolve - but move things forward.
The same thinking we bring to organizations -
complex ideas meet real dialogue, not talking points.
now playing
WHAT IS GET ME TO THE GRAY?
This isn’t separate from our work - it’s how our work shows up in the open.
Get Me to the Gray is a podcast exploring the conversations most organizations avoid - where clarity comes from staying in the tension, not simplifying it.
Each episode brings together voices with sharply different perspectives and lets the tension surface early, honestly, and without performance. There’s no debate format, no rush to resolution, and no expectation that anyone “wins.”
Instead, we stay with the discomfort.
Hosted by COJA Founder Paula Lehman-Ewing, Get Me to the Gray explores what happens when people resist certainty, step outside their feedback loops, and keep talking anyway. It’s not about finding common ground—it’s about understanding why disagreement exists, what it reveals, and what becomes possible when curiosity lasts longer than conviction.
WHAT IS GET ME TO THE GRAY?
This isn’t separate from our work - it’s how our work shows up in the open.
Get Me to the Gray is a podcast exploring the conversations most organizations avoid - where clarity comes from staying in the tension, not simplifying it.
Each episode brings together voices with sharply different perspectives and lets the tension surface early, honestly, and without performance. There’s no debate format, no rush to resolution, and no expectation that anyone “wins.”
Instead, we stay with the discomfort.
Hosted by COJA Founder Paula Lehman-Ewing, Get Me to the Gray explores what happens when people resist certainty, step outside their feedback loops, and keep talking anyway. It’s not about finding common ground—it’s about understanding why disagreement exists, what it reveals, and what becomes possible when curiosity lasts longer than conviction.
YOUR HOST
Through her reporting and advisory work, Paula came to see how often human judgment is replaced by scripts—how institutions lean on talking points, automated language, and rhetorical certainty to manage complexity. Her work is grounded in the belief that we are humans, not machines, and that narratives should be intentionally designed to reflect lived experience rather than perform persuasion. Get Me to the Gray emerged from this practice: a disciplined effort to slow conversations down, surface complexity without distortion, and translate difficult, often uncomfortable ideas into language that remains accessible to a broad public without sacrificing rigor or honesty.
YOUR HOST
Through her reporting and advisory work, Paula came to see how often human judgment is replaced by scripts—how institutions lean on talking points, automated language, and rhetorical certainty to manage complexity. Her work is grounded in the belief that we are humans, not machines, and that narratives should be intentionally designed to reflect lived experience rather than perform persuasion. Get Me to the Gray emerged from this practice: a disciplined effort to slow conversations down, surface complexity without distortion, and translate difficult, often uncomfortable ideas into language that remains accessible to a broad public without sacrificing rigor or honesty.
Call for Season 2 guests!
If you'd like to join us on an episode of Get Me to the Gray for Season 2, please connect with us below.
Call for Season 2 guests!
If you'd like to join us on an episode of Get Me to the Gray for Season 2, please connect with us below.
WHY THIS MATTERS
The same dynamics that show up here
are the ones
shaping how organizations are understood.
Where this shows up in your work:
Avoided conversations stall progress
When teams avoid tension, messaging fractures.
Oversimplification erodes trust
When clarity is rushed, meaning gets lost.
Misalignment creates confusion
When voices aren’t aligned, trust breaks down.
The same patterns show up inside organizations - in meetings, messaging, and decisions.
What happens here doesn’t stay here.
GMG LIVE EVENTS
Get Me to the Gray LIVE
A public conversation designed to slow things down and stay
Rooted in COJA’s narrative strategy work, GMG LIVE is designed for moments when the dominant language around public safety, leadership, accountability, and harm stops being useful. These live conversations examine the tension beneath the talking points: how power is exercised, how responsibility is framed, and how real-world consequences emerge from the stories institutions tell themselves.
Each event features a single guest — often someone with lived experience inside systems of authority — and centers unscripted, intellectually rigorous dialogue.
Events are ticketed to support shared investment and are paired with community impact through donations to local organizations working on prevention, intervention, and long-term safety beyond enforcement alone.
GMG LIVE is for people who understand that real solutions don’t come from louder arguments — they come from better questions.
GMG LIVE EVENTS
COJA Presents Get Me to the Gray LIVE at Tattered Cover
A public conversation designed to slow things down and stay
Rooted in COJA’s narrative strategy work, GMG LIVE is designed for moments when the dominant language around public safety, leadership, accountability, and harm stops being useful. These live conversations examine the tension beneath the talking points: how power is exercised, how responsibility is framed, and how real-world consequences emerge from the stories institutions tell themselves.
Each event features a single guest — often someone with lived experience inside systems of authority — and centers unscripted, intellectually rigorous dialogue.
Events are ticketed to support shared investment and are paired with community impact through donations to local organizations working on prevention, intervention, and long-term safety beyond enforcement alone.
GMG LIVE is for people who understand that real solutions don’t come from louder arguments — they come from better questions.
CONTACT US
If this way of thinking resonates

Bookings &
Inquiries
Interested in being a guest or booking a conversation? If you bring a perspective shaped by real experience - and you’re open to smart, engaging dialogue across difference - we’d love to hear from you.

Collaborations
Have an idea for a live event, partnership, or creative collaboration? If it aligns with the spirit of thoughtful conversation and public dialogue, let’s talk and see what’s possible.

Press &
Media
For media inquiries, interviews, speaking requests, or coverage related to Get Me to the Gray, please reach out here. We’re happy to provide show details, host bios, or coordinate press appearances.

Fan Mail
Have a thought, response, or note you want to share? This space is for listeners who want to engage with the show, reflect on an episode, or simply say hello.
CONTACT US
If this way of thinking resonates

Bookings &
Inquiries
Interested in being a guest or booking a conversation? If you bring a perspective shaped by real experience - and you’re open to smart, engaging dialogue across difference - we’d love to hear from you.

Collaborations
Have an idea for a live event, partnership, or creative collaboration? If it aligns with the spirit of thoughtful conversation and public dialogue, let’s talk and see what’s possible.

Press &
Media
For media inquiries, interviews, speaking requests, or coverage related to Get Me to the Gray, please reach out here. We’re happy to provide show details, host bios, or coordinate press appearances.

Fan Mail
Have a thought, response, or note you want to share? This space is for listeners who want to engage with the show, reflect on an episode, or simply say hello.
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